Curse

Loch · Oct 25, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Another big problem with persistant worlds; ridiculously long load times. In fact, 80%-95% of the time EQ crashed, it was during zoning. And it was hard to tell because I'd be sitting there waiting for 30 seconds in the first place.

That, and constant worlds need constant maintenance and the occasional reboot.

But instancing in GW has a really big problem too; once you're out of town, that's it. If you want anyone else to join you, tough. If people drop, too bad. At least in Diablo 2 people could come and go as they please. In GW, you have to simply stay short that many players. It would be nice to allow friends to fill in the spots of dropped players, but that could lead to people getting rushed through missions (experienced player drops, level 3 friend joins to complete the mission). At the very least, let a henchie fill the spot. Then again, what does ANet care about rushing? They allow it even though it's clearly screwing up low-level PvP.

Zephyr Jackson · Oct 25, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

What would the cost of Heal Party be? :O

Dax · Oct 26, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

a lot of "presistant" world games have instanced areas. EQ, EQ2, WoW, AO, AC2, etc

I know many MMO's do, I was commenting on the WoW reference.

Dax · Oct 26, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

Another big problem with persistant worlds; ridiculously long load times. In fact, 80%-95% of the time EQ crashed, it was during zoning. And it was hard to tell because I'd be sitting there waiting for 30 seconds in the first place.

Not really, I found that bumping the ram up helps alot with long load times on games like EQ2. WoW doesn't really have load times (aside from the inital load and instances).

cyberzomby · Oct 26, 2005, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomD22

GW instancing is GW. I realise that, and realise that it's not really an MMORPg at all, but a traditional story/mission based RPG that happens to allow you to play with other humans, rather than turn-based controlling your party or using AI. (leaving the PvP aside for the mo)

I totaly agree with you TomD22

Altough I like guildwars a lot, its not realy a mmorpg. its more like an singleplayer game with multyplayer options. And of course a lot of extra features come with that like a guild, online prices that vary and the regular leet talking

I would sure like to try out a game like wow or swg. I just havent got the money. Would be nice if there was a persistant type of area in gw somewhere

EDIT!
What I dont get is, you all say that the server costst of a persistant world are a lot higher. Dont you think that with the milion people playing gw, they wont need a few servers that are online 24/7?

coolsti · Oct 26, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

As I said before, and someone refined into a better word, its the immersion that I would love to see more of in guildwars. For example, nothing can spice up the monotony of the level treadmil like a "random GM event". I remember in one game that was persistant, the areas around towns were noobie areas, the further you got away from town the harder it got. I was playing one night when suddendly the "buzz" in the game is spreading that one of the cities or more accurately the noobie zone around it are being overrun by previously unknown undead creatures of a greater power than creatures usually found in that area. The call went out for some heros and me and my buddies joined the fray in an awesome battle against an undead horde. We were among some of the first responders because we heard about it quick an had a caster to teleport us. (no map travel) We fought a "delaying action" or maybe even a "fighting withdrawl" untill enough players arrived to overwhelm the undead threat.

Despite the fact that the above scenario sounds interesting, I for one am very glad that GW is the way it is. Given the large number of annoying players that I meet in the towns, outposts and PUG groups, I am very glad that I can form a team of friends and friendly players, enter a mission or walk out a portal, and leave all the rest behind.

asdar · Oct 26, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

The only good thing I can say about instances is that it lets the developers set up MORE challenging adventures because the variables are set.

Did GW do that? No way, this game is so simple that without any cheats or runners or twinking you can finish in 20 hours easily. Not only that but when you do it once it's exactly the same for the next character.

My warrior/ranger was my 2nd character through, I got him from zero to 20 in one afternoon wearing Ascalon Armor and no help.

I'm interested in seeing an instanced game that is even decently challenging come along to explore the possibilities but GW isn't it.

Right now I'm in the persistant camp all the way because of the community that goes hand in hand with it. I never was intentionally trained and didn't have people killstealing all over the place when I played persistent worlds. I think the rumor of killstealing and all griefing was way over played and very rare on most servers. I played a lot so I should have seen some more of it if it really was as bad as people make it out to be.

Xonic · Oct 26, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

...I was playing one night when suddendly the "buzz" in the game is spreading that one of the cities or more accurately the noobie zone around it are being overrun by previously unknown undead creatures of a greater power than creatures usually found in that area. The call went out for some heros and me and my buddies joined the fray in an awesome battle against an undead horde. We were among some of the first responders because we heard about it quick an had a caster to teleport us. (no map travel) We fought a "delaying action" or maybe even a "fighting withdrawl" untill enough players arrived to overwhelm the undead threat.
...

Ashon's Call 2, right?

Xonic · Oct 26, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

...
I'm interested in seeing an instanced game that is even decently challenging come along to explore the possibilities but GW isn't it.

Right now I'm in the persistant camp all the way because of the community that goes hand in hand with it. I never was intentionally trained and didn't have people killstealing all over the place when I played persistent worlds. I think the rumor of killstealing and all griefing was way over played and very rare on most servers. I played a lot so I should have seen some more of it if it really was as bad as people make it out to be.

Agree on wanting more challenges. GW PvE is way too easy (some people may disagree, thinking GW PvE is too hard, but that's another issue). When I can finish just about any mission with just myself and full team of henchmen, with any profession I play, with ease, this game is failing at challenging players.

The only real challenge at the moment is manage playing with bad human players. With a semi decent human players team, half of the team can afk at zone in and players still win the mission.

I come from playing EQ hardcore for about 2 years, another 2 years casual playing EQ and various other MMORPG games before that. I don't miss the time sink, the kill steal, the trains in EQ, but I definitly miss the challanges and the community.

In EQ, a bad group just isn't gonna go anywhere fast. And player/character repetition actually mean something.

But the train, the kill steal are not over played. Not only there are other players wanting to, trying to, doing so to "steal" the mobs for exp/loot/quest, there are professional eBayers, 6 boxing (controlling multiply characters at once) that'll kill steal your mobs right under your nose. and no, they are not breaking any offical rules by doing it with little bit of caution.

benmanhaha · Oct 26, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I dont know too much but why not mix it up. If you want a few instanced zones and few persistant zones why not. If people are camping a boss move to another zone and try there. For kill stealing if your party is attacking that monster then others cant attack it. For loot stealing why not use the system already in guild wars. The loot will be distributed among the people in the party who killed the monster. Now like i said i dont know what it would cost to have some persistant and instanced zones but if we have to start paying a monthly fee well then im happy with instanced.

Elistan Theocrat · Oct 27, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

Ashon's Call 2, right?

Nope, EQ actually, Cant remember the name of the zone, but it was the first zone outside of qeynos, used to be able to get the fishbone earing of a rare goblin or something, had the entrance to blackburrow and the stonehenge lookin thing with the undead around it.

Priest_Ezekiel · Oct 27, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I like that Guild Wars is an instanced world. In MMORPGs that have persistant worlds I have had bad experiences. There are conflicting interests...you want to level and then someone comes and wants to level so you end up sharing a pit or have the pit be taken over by higher leveled people or by people who want to piss you off and kill you.

Persistant worlds are fun because you can walk out of town and run by people and meet new people and talk. Unfortunately, the world isn't full of perfect people... people don't know how to treat eachother right and for that reason alone I think that Instanced wins.. they BOTH have their pros and cons though.

Loch · Oct 27, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Notice how a persistant world is supposed to increase immersion, but the mechanics of those kinds of game completely go against immersion?

Imagine... you're in a world where you're with your elite heroic team, out to slay a beast threatening the continent with its... wait, nevermind, a few other guys just killed it, you have to go sit down and wait for it to spawn again. After all, you guys need its phat lewt.

Forget it. For big boss challenges, instancing is the only way to go, which is one thing WoW did right. As for an entirely instanced world, well, it IS kinda nice to come across people once in a while when soloing.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 27, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

I cant think of anyone who would truly prefer instanced.

Except me, then.
I don't like people. I don't want them around when I play. I play to play. I don't play to socialize.

Quote:

Did GW do that? No way, this game is so simple that without any cheats or runners or twinking you can finish in 20 hours easily.

Bullsh!t.